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PostPoslato: 22 Mar 2013, 21:25 
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U monoteizmu kojim se ponekad odnedavna znam izjasniti iz zaštitnih razloga ima sledećega:

Ne znam tačno kako se sve to zove, apokrifi, pseudopigrafni spisi starog i novog zavjeta, ima tu i istorijeskih spisa, u smislu razumijevanja istorije i vjere.

Dati ću neke linkove gdje to ima:


Ima tu tekstova oko Svetog Pisma, možda posebno interesantno je zbog evanđelja, za koje znamo kako je ono sadašnje utvrđeno, odabirom par iz skupine, naravno pod Božjim okriljem, tako dea nema sumnje u predodređenost Novog Zavjeta, ako bih najširi bio.


Najvažnije što bih htio reći je:
Čitam u Book of Jasher, kad je Josif išao braći, pojavio mu se anđeo koji mu je rekao gdje su braća jer je ovaj bio zalutao, potom su ga braća bacila iz ljubomore u jamu, odakle je karavanom otišao u Egipat.
Šta ovdje vidimo?
Vidimo nekakvu predodređenost čini mi se, dakle za Josifa sve je bilo sigurno, i on je uistinu miran pred Bogom bio, ali je morao proči patnju do onog položaja zamjenika faraona u Egiptu.
Dakle nije se imao o čemu brinuti, samo podnositi, dakako čovjeku kao biću je to teško, a usput nisam rekao anđeo mu se pojavio vjerovatno u ljudskom obliku, tako da to Josif nije znao da je anđeo.


Sad hoću da iznesem još neke stvari iz Istinite knjige kako čini mi se preijevod njen glasi (Book of Jasher)
1.
Citiraj:
1.17 And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account.
18 And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land?
19 And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool?
20 And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said?


Ovdje se vidi uzrok svađe Kaina i Abela, mada po hadisima svađa je čini mi se bila oko ženidbe sestrama.


2.

Citiraj:
CHAPTER 8
1 And it was in the night that Abram was born, ...
2 ... and behold one very large star came from the east and ran in the heavens, and he swallowed up the four stars from the four sides of the heavens.


Abrahamovo rođenje predskazano kretajućom zvijezom koja je na nebu progutala četiri zvijezde. Oko toga je Abraham imao problema jer se vidjelo i znali su to svi tamo...


3.
Citiraj:
CHAPTER 22
44 As the Lord liveth, the God of my father Abraham, if the Lord should say unto my father, Take now thy son Isaac and bring him up an offering before me, I would not refrain but I would joyfully accede to it.
45 And the Lord heard the word that Isaac spoke to Ishmael, and it seemed good in the sight of the Lord, and he thought to try Abraham in this matter.


Isak i Ismail su se hvalisali među sobom, pa je Isak rekao ovo gore, pa je Bog to čuo i tako kušao Abrahama, po rječju Isakovoj, jer Isak je prvi na to pomislio, da nije tog žrtvovanja ne bi bilo.



To je sve zasad.


Poslednji put menjao Ponirski dana 24 Maj 2017, 17:58, izmenjena 2 puta

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PostPoslato: 11 Apr 2013, 20:36 
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Čitajući dalje ''Istinitu knjigu'' koja po obimu je široka kao pet mojsijevih knjiga zajedno, a na poslednjoj sam trečini sad, dakle usred knjige je priča o josifu jakovljevom i ona dirljiva egipatska priča, koja je opširnije data, nešto mi čudno jer govori se o velikoj snazi jakovljevih sinova koji su mogli pobiti egipat, a sjetimo sa da u Bibliji dva brata su zarad Dine pobila čitav grad.


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Izvjesni štap se pominje u toj knjizi, koji je Bog stvorio i koji je preko poslanika, Adama, Nuha, Avrama, Isaka, Jakuba, Josifa stigao i do Mojsija. Dakle taj štap su svi nosili. Čudna knjiga, malo me dezorjentiše čitanje engleskog, navodno mojsije piše je prvo bio kod Jetra zatvoren pa potom se oženio.

Citiraj:
CHAPTER 77
39 And it was that whilst he prayed he looked opposite to him, and behold a sapphire stick was placed in the ground, which was planted in the midst of the garden.
40 And he approached the stick and he looked, and behold the name of the Lord God of hosts was engraved thereon, written and developed upon the stick.
41 And he read it and stretched forth his hand and he plucked it like a forest tree from the thicket, and the stick was in his hand.
42 And this is the stick with which all the works of our God were performed, after he had created heaven and earth, and all the host of them, seas, rivers and all their fishes.
43 And when God had driven Adam from the garden of Eden, he took the stick in his hand and went and tilled the ground from which he was taken.
44 And the stick came down to Noah and was given to Shem and his descendants, until it came into the hand of Abraham the Hebrew.
45 And when Abraham had given all he had to his son Isaac, he also gave to him this stick.
46 And when Jacob had fled to Padan-aram, he took it into his hand, and when he returned to his father he had not left it behind him.
47 Also when he went down to Egypt he took it into his hand and gave it to Joseph, one portion above his brethren, for Jacob had taken it by force from his brother Esau.
48 And after the death of Joseph, the nobles of Egypt came into the house of Joseph, and the stick came into the hand of Reuel the Midianite, and when he went out of Egypt, he took it in his hand and planted it in his garden.


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PostPoslato: 29 Apr 2014, 11:01 
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Keep thyself from evil, and do it not; but abstain not from good, but do it.
For if thou shalt abstain from what is good, and not do it, thou shalt sin.

THE SHEPHERD OF HERMAS.
COMMAND VIII.-2.


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PostPoslato: 29 Apr 2014, 12:07 
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THE SHEPHERD OF HERMAS.
COMMAND X.

18 8 Remove therefore sadness from thyself, 9 and afflict not the Holy Spirit which dwelleth in thee, lest he 10 entreat God, and depart from thee. For the spirit of the Lord 11 which is given to dwell in the flesh, endureth no such sadness.
19 Wherefore clothe thyself with cheerfulness, which has always favour with the Lord, and thou shalt rejoice in it. For every cheerful man does well; and relishes those things that are good, and despises 12 sadness.
20 But the sad man does always wickedly. 13 First, he doth wickedly, because he grieveth the Holy Spirit, which is given to man, being of a cheerful nature. And again he does ill, because he prays with sadness unto the Lord,
p. 224
and maketh not a first thankful acknowledgment unto him of former mercies, and obtains not of God what he asks.
21 For the prayer of a sad man has not always efficacy to come up to the altar of God. And I said unto him, Sir, why has not the prayer of a sad man virtue to come up to the altar of God? because, said he, that sadness remaineth in his heart.
22 When therefore a man's prayer shall be accompanied with sadness, it will not suffer his requests to ascend pure to the altar of God. For as wine when it is mingled with vinegar, has not the sweetness it had before; so sadness being mixed with the Holy Spirit, suffers not a man's prayer to be the same as it would be otherwise.
23 Wherefore cleanse thyself from sadness, which is evil, and thou shalt live unto God. And all others shall live unto God, as many as shall lay aside sadness and put on cheerfulness.

Govor o izbjegavanju tuge, a tuga dolazi od grijeha, ali i od lošeg okruženja, ipak prvo je lično, a zbog prihvatljive molitve.
dakle bitan je čovjek, a ne okolina kao iskušenje.


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And I asked him and said unto him: Lord, suffer me to speak thy word concerning the sinners: It were better for them if they had not been created. And the Saviour answered and said unto me: Peter, wherefore speakest thou thus, that not to have been created were better for them Thou resistest God. Thou wouldest not have more compassion than he for his image: for he hath created them and brought them forth out of not being. Now because thou hast seen the lamentation which shall come upon the sinners in the last days, therefore is thine heart troubled; but I will show thee their works, whereby they have sinned against the Most High.

Ovdje sam se sjetio Kur'ana koji kaže da je sve Allahova volja, da on hoće on bi nevjernike uputio na pravi put, ali očito je da smo slobodni i na osnovu odluke svakog ponaosob..., dakle sloboda je data opredjeljenja.

__________________

And therefore saith he in the scripture: [Ezek. xxxvii.] Son of man, prophesy upon the several bones and say unto the bones: bone unto bone in joints, sinew. nerves, flesh and skin and hair thereon [and soul and spirit].
And soul and spirit shall the great Uriel give them at the commandment of God; for him hath God set over the rising again of the dead at the day of judgement.
Behold and consider the corns of wheat that are sown in the earth. As things dry and without soul do men sow them in the earth: and they live again and bear fruit, and the earth restoreth them as a pledge entrusted unto it.

Apocalypse of Peter


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http://www.biblija.rs/pages/biblija_apokrifi.html

tu ima o tom i bibliji izgleda fino objašnjeno

nadalje izlagati pročitano, a nešto je i prevođeno na naš(e) jezik (e)


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The Didache
"The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" (Late first century)

Chapter 3. Other Sins Forbidden.
Your soul shall not be joined with lofty ones, but with just and lowly ones shall it have its intercourse. Accept whatever happens to you as good, knowing that apart from God nothing comes to pass.


Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets.
But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord.

Chapter 13. Support of Prophets.
But every true prophet who wants to live among you is worthy of his support. So also a true teacher is himself worthy, as the workman, of his support. Every first-fruit, therefore, of the products of wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and of sheep, you shall take and give to the prophets, for they are your high priests. But if you have no prophet, give it to the poor. If you make a batch of dough, take the first-fruit and give according to the commandment. So also when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the first-fruit and give it to the prophets; and of money (silver) and clothing and every possession, take the first-fruit, as it may seem good to you, and give according to the commandment.


Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord.
those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.

kratka knjižica, sumira poruku evanđelja,
završeno.


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 Tema posta: Knjiga Adama i Eve
PostPoslato: 08 Sep 2014, 21:22 
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O... pa ti si to već otvorio... Svaka čast! Baš mi drago :Thumleft:

Već neko vrijeme razmišljam prevesti nešto od apokrife, pseudoepigrafe, "izgubljenih ili zaboravljenih spisa" i sl... (čak i od ranih otaca i apologeta) i sve nešto mislim, gdje bi se to moglo "uglaviti" ovdje na forumu, jer ima tu vrlo vrijednih stvari, i zanimljivih nadasve (meni bar).

Pa, evo, da počnem odnekuda...


Ovako počinje:

Knjiga Adama i Eve 1 - Sukob sa Satanom

Trećega dana Bog je zasadio vrt na istoku zemlje, prema dolasku zore, na istočnoj granici svijeta, iza koje se ne može pronaći ništa osim vode koje obljubljuju cijeli svijet i sežu do granica nebesa.

Sjeverno od vrta je ocean voda, bistrih i čista okusa, ničemu drugome nalik; tako da se kroz njegovu bistrinu mogu vidjeti zemljine dubine. I kada se čovjek u njemu okupa, postaje čist njegovom čistoćom i bijel njegovom bjelinom - čak i ako je mračan.

Bog je stvorio ocean jer je takva bila njegova dobra volja i radost, jer znao je što će postati od čovjeka kojega će stvoriti; tako da nakon što će napustiti vrt, jer je učinio na šta je bio upozoren da ne čini, ljudi morati biti rađani na zemlji. Među njima su i pravedni koji će pomrijeti, čije će duše Bog podići zadnjega dana; kada će se svi ponovno inkarnirati, okupati u vodama tog oceana i pokajati od svojih grešaka.

Ali, kada je Bog poslao Adama iz vrta, nije ga poslao na sjeverne granice vrta. To je stoga da on i Eva ne mogu prići oceanu voda u kojima bi se mogli oprati, biti očišćeni od svojih pogrešaka, obrisati čine koje su upućeni da ne čine a koje su počinili i ništa ih više ne bi podsjećalo u mislima na njihovu nevolju.

Bog nije htio niti da Adam živi na južnoj granici vrta jer kad bi vjetrovi puhali sa sjevera donijeli bi mu na tu južnu stranu slatke mirise drveća iz vrta. Zato Bog nije Adama smjestio tamo, da ne namiriši slatke miomirise tog drveća, zaboravi svoj prijestup i pronađe utjehu za ono što je napravio, uživajući u mirisu drveća a opet ne bi bio pročišćen od svog prijestupa.

A pošto je Bog milostiv i silna je njegova ljubav i vlada i upravlja svim stvarima na način koji je samo njemu znan - našeg oca Adama poslao je da živi na zapadnim granicama vrta, jer na toj strani je zemlja vrlo široka i prostrana. Tamo ga je Bog uputio da živi u spilji s blagom - Spilji s Blagom, ispod vrta.

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 Tema posta: Knjiga Adama i Eve
PostPoslato: 08 Sep 2014, 21:31 
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Pridružio se: 23 Nov 2008, 19:19
Postovi: 169
I ovako završava:


"
Riječ Božja reče: "Stavit ću sedam kazni na bilo koga tko ubije Kaina".

Tako, Bog nije htio ubiti Kaina mačem, već je htio da ovaj umre u postu i molitvi (...) do časa kad će biti oslobođen od svog grijeha.
A sedam kazni su sedam generacija tijekom kojih je Bog čekao na Kaina zbog ubojstva njegovog brata.

A od momenta kad je ubio svog brata, Kain se nije mogao smiriti, pa se vratio k Adamu i Evi, drhćući, u strahu i okaljan krvlju.

Ovim završava Prva Knjiga Adama i Eve.
"


Zanimljivo mi je ovdje to što se u nekim drugim knjigama navodi da je Kaina greškom ubio Lameh (koji je baš sedam generacija udaljen od Kaina). Tako, Kaina je ustrijelio njegov vlastiti potomak, sedmo koljeno, po imenu Lameh (ovo nije Noin otac).




Postoji Knjiga Adama i Eve 2

i tu se priča nastavlja i govori o zbivanjima sve do Adamove smrti (tj. sahrane) što znači do ranih Lamehovih dana (oca Noinog).

Npr, kaže odmah pri početku da je

Abel imao 15, a Kain 17 godina. Nakon što je završio period žaljenja za pokojnim Abelom, Kain je oženio svoju sestru Luluwu i s njom je živio na istom onom mjestu gdje je ubio svog brata Abela.

_________________
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Poslednji put menjao ananda dana 10 Sep 2014, 21:35, izmenjena samo jedanput

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